Do we prevent somebody being hurt by superstition or faith by rejecting and challenging those things? 

Is it mistaken to support organised religion in membership or donations?

If people do good because they are human, not because God prompts them then is it right to risk giving God any credit when they alone own their good?

Patrick H

Science is about how things affect each other – about how one thing relates to another.  One domino knocks the other down.  That is what it looks like.  You cannot start assuming that a ghost you cannot detect is what knocks the other domino down though it could be that looks are deceiving.  Science then by default rejects the idea of supernatural causes.  It does not assume that there are complicated laws we know nothing about that create the effect.  It is just that one physical thing hits another and knocks it over.  It keeps it simple.


Believers hold that there would be nothing at all if there were no God.  To say a tree does not prove God is to say it fails to prove him for it could be just there. So believers are indicating that they think things could be a mere brute fact that exist for no reason.  They will not admit it clearly.  Yet they condemn science for being based on the brute fact idea.


Religion says that science cannot do tests to see if God is behind something.  It will not admit that this really amounts to saying God cannot be tested in a lab.  But there is more to science than those kind of tests.  The domino knocking over the other domino is seen as scientific proof that nature explains itself and you cannot say or even SUGGEST that the other domino is not really affected by the one that seems to hit it and thus that it is God that knocks it over.  The idea that God is non-material and undetectable is not enough to prove that science cannot test him.
In Catholic doctrine, as God makes all things and holds them in being there is no such thing as anything being at a distance from him. Though God can cure a heart attack (primary cause) he may use doctors (secondary cause) instead. These are described as primary and secondary causes. They are not direct and indirect causes. They are simply two different ways in which he acts as direct cause.
“The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator. God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 308).

The Bible frequently ascribes “actions to God without mentioning any secondary causes. This is not a ‘primitive mode of speech,’ but a profound way of recalling God’s primacy and absolute Lordship over history and the world” (CCC 304).
To prevent science declaring that there is no God or that if there is we should not believe for it is unscientific, God believers attempt to put God outside the reach of science. They argue that science is only about secondary causes not primary. But that will not do. The argument is that unless there is a primary cause you cannot believe in or care about secondary. There cannot be a secondary cause.  If science does not understand that it is secondary causes it is dealing with then it is a pile of rubbish.  Science does not accept that it deals only with secondary causes for that implies science must admit a primary cause, God.


Strictly speaking because nothing at all exists unless God holds it in existence then there is nothing only primary causes.


God and science are opposed despite religious lies that they fit together.


Those who say God made all and is good are saying that evil cannot be a power but must be just when good falls short of what it could be.  So evil is really a form of good.  The idea that sickness and temptation and evil are not directly caused by God but caused by things he has made meaning he is not the primary cause but the secondary is total rubbish if evil is simply the absence of good. Why? If evil is the mere absence of good then it does not matter if a cause is primary or secondary – it is still evil. Evil that is direct is actually not as strong as evil that is indirect.  Evil gets its power from disguising.  Evil needs to be indirect if it is parasitic on good.  It is essentially indirect.


The primary and secondary cause stuff is window dressing to hide the absurdity of God.




The Bible is said to talk as if God did evil directly when it in fact he is the first cause and it is secondary causes that do the evil. So they deny that is direct. But the Bible DOES clearly and repeatedly teach that God DOES EVIL DIRECTLY. He gave the commands to have sinners killed and gave the commands directly. A sabbath breaker was stoned to death at God's command. Jesus walked to his death deliberately and thus harmed his killers if you believe the killer harms themselves as much as the victim. That was a direct evil too.  God says, "I create evil."  "The Lord is a man of war".   If war is a needed evil it is still an evil and God calling himself a warrior is clearly revelling in it.  Look at Isaiah 37:26 NIV.  “Have you not heard? Long ago I ordained it. In days of old I planned it; now I have brought it to pass, that you [Sennacherib, king of Assyria] have turned fortified cities into piles of stone.” ESV translation is: “Have you not heard that I determined it long ago? I planned from days of old what now I bring to pass, that you should make fortified cities crash into heaps of ruins.” Asah is the word that ordained or determined is translated from.  It means to make or do.  It describes God as the only real agent.  Its deliberate.

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