Do we prevent somebody being hurt by superstition or faith by rejecting and challenging those things? 

Is it mistaken to support organised religion in membership or donations?

If people do good because they are human, not because God prompts them then is it right to risk giving God any credit when they alone own their good?

Patrick H
Gormley


 

THE ILLUSION OF FORGIVENESS - THE PROOF THAT GOD IS INCOHERENT AS A CONCEPT AND MORALLY USELESS

Only morality can forgive a person.  But clearly morality is bigger than God. Religion says that this is an error - God is morality.  But if you could have one without the other you would want morality so in that way morality matters and God does not.  God and people forgiving means they are following a social construct. Morality might not even authorise the forgiveness for all we know if it could.  That makes it real but only in the minds of those who forgive and are forgiven.  The reality could be totally different.  Only the person who has suffered the pain can consider absolving and forgive.  This does not mean others should trust the forgiven or agree with the absolution.

God is the being who made all things from nothing just so that there could be creatures who can have a loving mutual relationship with him.  Creatures with free will can sin so God has to be able to forgive them so that the broken relationship can be restored.

Morality essentially means being fair and loving.  Morality flows from duty and responsibility.  Nobody can make it fair to forgive.  It is fair when it is fair and that is nobody's choice.  Choosing to forgive cannot make it the moral choice.  Forgiving then is not necessarily fair.  You cannot make forgiveness fair.  Not even God can do that.  He cannot do that any more than he can make love be a form of sunlight.

You need not read on if you want a disproof of God.  God is not only nonsense and contradictory but also evil.  It is evil the way he abuses mercy to turn it into justice.

ABOUT FORGIVENESS

Forgiveness is defined as leaving what the person has done in the past in order to be good for them and to them.

 

God is said to be good for you and good to you anyway - so if there is harm you are doing it to yourself.  Not only do you insult him by rejecting him, you insult him by using the good he does for you to harm yourself with it. The person who gets drunk on purpose is abusing both God and God's gift of alcohol.  This shows how much faith is victim-blaming and shows how passive-aggressive belief in God and believers are.  They are trying to inflict moral injury on you either directly or by getting you to do it to yourself or both.

# Justice says a person has become bad.  So forgiveness is needed.  Forgiveness is judgement though it is nice judgement.  It judges the person as bad but refuses to let the bad define the person.  So it offers the gift of letting it go.

# Forgiveness that is earned is not forgiveness at all.

# Forgiveness is a gift that is meant to allow you a fresh start so you can do good where you did bad.

# Forgiveness only helps the person trying to change if the person is really trying - contrite and willing to make amends.  It helps those who are associated with the person too for no person is an island.

So it is a gift but must be given for loving reasons and out of concern for justice.

THE DOCTRINES OF THE HUMAN CENTRE AND INSTANT MERCY

Religious people say the person with a dark soul thinks they are not affected and can be happy. They are supposed to be damaged at their core and the not realising is part of the damage. This dreadful argument implies that the child molested by a rapist has no deep and profound damage inside - their "soul" is okay. It is the soul of the attacker that is in question. The attacker is the one worse off. This seems to mean that you need good values to be a true human being and if you choose to push them out of your soul you are less than a person. Your dignity and potential are damaged.

Nobody is able to show that this damage is real or important.  It is cruel to use something so vague as if the bad person matters more than the victim and as if the harm done to the victim means nothing in comparison to what has happened to the bad person's soul.  It is really an excuse for evoking sympathy for the Devil and passive aggressively attacking the victim.

There is more trouble.  It is that you cannot know if you are acting from the damage or too influenced by the damage to know your request to change your ways is sincere or as deep as what you think.  Unless your commitment to being a forgiven person is as deep as the damage or deeper you are fooling yourself and that is an attempt to fool God and/or others.

If there is deep hard to find damage then instant forgiveness fixes nothing.  An instant antibiotic for pneumonia leaves the person dead for the disease needs gradual healing.  The damage is done by the evil act and what it has made you into and as it is so deep-seated a long and painful process of healing is needed.  You are never sure how it is progressing.

What is this fast and rapid and instant forgiveness that God gives?  All forgiveness if real involves changing your mind about the person.  You will see the person as good now and as trying to change.  It is offering, where necessary and appropriate, practical and spiritual help to help the person keep on that path.

God changing his attitude to sinners is no good if they have corrupted their core - their inner personhood.  Changing the attitude does not change the person.

So power must be involved.  He acts on you so that you are now not person sin but person forgiven.

Given what we have learned about being damaged at your core and damage leads to some blindness his help must be met with scepticism.  It is exactly what you would expect such blindness to make you think - that you have been changed.

Forgiveness needs to be not something instant like what you get from saying a prayer of repentance or going to get God's forgiveness from the priest in confession.  It needs to be a process. Human nature treats it as a process and God should too and even more so.  Instant pardon and the quest for it show that the deception we are talking about is in fact at play.

TO SUM UP

Religion says God forgives when they repent as in changing his attitude to them and also uses power that forgives the sin. It happens all in the second that the person repents and opens up to divine mercy.  This makes forgiveness a pile of foolishness and irresponsible and yet without forgiving there can be no love so love is suspect.  Forgiveness from God seems to make you face and answer for your moral infractions.   But it is done so easily that this cannot be called facing or answering.

So God cannot forgive just like that.  The fault is us not him.  Instant forgiveness is evil.  If man has invented this doctrine not God then man is a disgrace and needs telling.

Love rules out evil regardless of whether it is an opposite or not. The religious say that if you do harm you harm yourself in a way you cannot harm the victim - you damage your dignity and your ethical self. It is like you become bad energy that fools even you and manipulates you.  Somebody sins and becomes evil or bad.  It is what they are as persons.  Love the sinner and hate the sin pretends that you are not your sin but then they say then that you are so how can you really want forgiveness from a God or religion that is that two-faced? 

God may forgive but morality cannot forgive for it is not a person.  It can only say it is fair for a person to have another chance but only if the person truly is ready and wants it.

__________________________________________

ARGUMENT 1

If we all do wrong or sin

If God is love he wants a relationship with us

Then we need forgiveness from God

 

ARGUMENT 2

If we sin

Sin is a block to experiencing and accepting God as love

Then we need forgiveness so forgiveness is the top way God shows his love

 

ARGUMENT 3

Forgiveness from God enables reconciliation with God

God made me for himself not for me

I need forgiveness not for my sake but for his - for God who alone matters

 

ARGUMENT 4

God is love

God is everything and I am nothing in comparison

Therefore God loves me for he owes it to himself so the love is not really about me

 

ARGUMENT 5

God loves me

God does not have to forgive me

He generously chooses to if I repent and turn to him for deliverance from sin

[note: God forgives not because he must or because I need it.  He forgives for he promised.  This makes you wonder what the attraction of divine forgiveness is.  Those who see it in fact think God has to forgive them because THEY say so.  It is not about him.  This is just another case of people using God for favours.  Your search for pardon and mercy are selfish if that is all you care about.]

 

ARGUMENT 6

If God chooses to forgive just because he can

And it is evil not to forgive

Then God is evil for he is forgiving because he can and not because it is good

 

ARGUMENT 7

Does God have to forgive for not forgiving is evil?

If I sin then I need forgiveness

If I sin I need forgiveness to connect with God

Therefore God is evil is he does not forgive

 

THIS ARGUMENT SHOWS THAT FAR FROM BEING HUMBLE I MUST THINK GOD IS DUTY-BOUND TO FORGIVE ME.  I AM ARROGANT AND PROUD.  A SPECK, AN ANT, TELLING THE INFINITE CREATOR OF ALL HE MUST FORGIVE ME IS UNIMAGINABLE ARROGANCE.

 

ARGUMENT 8

I need forgiveness to resume my relationship and friendship with God.

I must live without God perhaps forever in Hell unless I am forgiven.

Therefore Hell is possible.

 

THIS ARGUMENT ONLY MAKES SENSE IF HELL IS NOT THAT BAD.  PEOPLE SENSE THAT VIOLATING GOD IS NOT THAT TERRIBLE AND IS ACTUALLY LARGELY FUN WHICH IS WHY HELL IS NOT A WORRY EXCEPT FOR A HANDFUL.

 

SIN CREATES HELL SO HOW COME GOD KNOWS SIN SO WELL AND HAS AUTHORITY TO SAVE YOU FROM IT BY FORGIVING IT?  THERE IS A MYSTERY HERE!  A DOCTOR WHO HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED FLU MAY STILL HELP YOU.  BUT GOD IS NOT THE SAME AS THAT.

 

ARGUMENT 9

 

Forgiveness is an approach to somebody who may abuse it and abuse you.

 

[Any definition of forgiveness states that forgiveness is risk.  It is kindly taking a risk to be good to somebody who may betray or hurt you again.]

 

God cannot really risk for he is all powerful creator of all things including the past and the present and the future.

 

Therefore God does not forgive.